Message-Id: <199901211550.JAA08182@casper.realtime.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:49:52 -0400
From: "Quinn@GhostWheel" <someone@ghostwheel.mud.org>
To: quinn@netsville.com
Subject: GhostWheel Message(s) 5633 - 5805 from *Chat (#5391)

Message 5633 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Dec 15 01:24:34 1998 EST
From:     Denali (#18459)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Last

Ass-u-me.

Denali

--------------------------


Message 5634 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Dec 15 11:35:09 1998 EST
From:     Darius_Lee (#10280)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

A free smooch to the person who can guess why today has special significance
to me!!


leila

--------------------------


Message 5635 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Dec 15 11:44:50 1998 EST
From:     DragonBabe (#5288)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Darius Lee

Everyone wish DL a Very Happy Birthday~!
*hugs and smoochies to everyones favorite munchkin!*

--------------------------


Message 5636 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Dec 15 17:54:26 1998 EST
From:     Santa's_Elves_on_Crack (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  The Principia Discordia

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/body.html

--------------------------


Message 5637 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Dec 15 21:35:25 1998 EST
From:     Rand (#9865)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  The NPC character Rand.


Rand is up for bidding.

If anyone would like to play Rand, let Eponine know please.  If not, he will
be taken from play and used strictly in StoryLines posts.


--------------------------


Message 5638 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Dec 15 21:36:51 1998 EST
From:     Fenton_the_Death_Sheep_From_Hell (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Rand.

Rand is having a cranky fit right now and is currently behaving like a two
year old child who isn't getting his way.  Please ignore the previous post.
He will get over himself one of these days.

--------------------------


Message 5639 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Dec 15 21:43:56 1998 EST
From:     Styx (#1610)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  DL

I thought it was the day you finally realized you were going to marry me and
give me your father's fortune?

-Kyn

--------------------------


Message 5640 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 16 13:41:10 1998 EST
From:     Santa's_Elves_on_Crack (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

You've got it wrong, Styx. She was going to marry *me*.

--------------------------


Message 5641 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 16 15:37:25 1998 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Kids, kids, you both have it wrong. She's not going to marry either of you.

--------------------------


Message 5642 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 16 20:02:06 1998 EST
From:     Oberon (#22725)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Oooooo

I have been on GW for exactly a year. I love ya baby.

--------------------------


Message 5643 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 16 20:04:34 1998 EST
From:     Draven (#20327)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Last

You're still not getting my Bud, Oberon.

--------------------------


Message 5644 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 16 23:26:39 1998 EST
From:     Styx (#1610)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  An alphabet for the kids

www.ior.com/~ficus/tinies.html


--------------------------


Message 5645 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Thu Dec 17 02:10:30 1998 EST
From:     Smoke (#12541)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  new players :)

Bones came to play here tonight :) Maybe more will come to play as well. So
lets be nice on chat and not scare em away.

--------------------------


Message 5646 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Thu Dec 17 02:11:17 1998 EST
From:     Dante (#10660)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Hides the pickaxe and the bloody burlap bag behind his back. "Sure."

--------------------------


Message 5647 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Thu Dec 17 17:59:52 1998 EST
From:     Akeashar (#20348)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  You know you want to.

Got me new page semi-done.

http://members.xoom.com/Akeashar

Feel free to give comments, feedback, etc.

Ake

--------------------------


Message 5648 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Thu Dec 17 20:10:48 1998 EST
From:     Ylaerin (#16541)
To:       *Chat (#5391) and *DragonRiders (#5915)
Subject:  To Whom It May Concern (and the rest of you can skip it)

Just thought I'd let you all know that tomorrow is the official beginning of
Winter Break and so that makes tonight the last official night of massive
idling and goofing around (even tho I'm writing 3 papers... hm..) for the next
3 weeks or so. (buh)
I'll be back in action on January 10, but until then I'll just be checking in
and lagging whenever I can via AOHell. So everyone have a lovely 3 weeks, and
keep an eye out for poor lil laggity me.

-Jess

--------------------------


Message 5649 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Thu Dec 17 21:31:30 1998 EST
From:     Smoke (#12541)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  heh

http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/clinton.htm

--------------------------


Message 5650 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Thu Dec 17 22:03:59 1998 EST
From:     Fenton_the_Death_Sheep_From_Hell (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Well, there's been several recent changes in my life.

My grandfather is in the hospital again, they've done a bone scan and are
hoping the results will be in tomorrow, but at the latest I'll find out by
Monday.  He has advanced heart disease, as well as osteoperosis.  The family
is deducing that this will be his last Christmas, and so we're in a state of
greiving quietly so he won't see it, being brave for him.

On the bright side, I've found a good job with decent pay.  I guess this
holiday season isn't all bad.


--------------------------


Message 5651 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Fri Dec 18 12:16:47 1998 EST
From:     DragonBabe (#5288)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Nasty things..

>> An incident occured when a friend's co-worker went to sit in a chair at the
movie theater and something was poking her. She then got up and found that it
was a needle with a little note at the end. It said, "Welcome to the real
world, you're HIV POSITIVE". Doctors tested the needle and it was HIV
POSITIVE.
>> Be cautious when going to the movies! >PLEASE, PLEASE check!!! One of the
safest ways to check is, moving the seat part way up and down a few times and
REALLY LOOK!!! But NOT sticking your hands between the seats. Most of us just
plop down into the seats....

>> The following info was emailed to all employees of the Metro Police Dept
this morning, 11/3/98. Pay Telephones Drug users are now taking their used
needles and putting them into the coin return slots in public telephones.
People are putting their fingers into recover coins or just to check if anyone
left change. They are getting stuck by these needles and infected with
hepatitis, HIV and other diseases.

The world gets sicker.

--------------------------


Message 5652 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Fri Dec 18 20:07:54 1998 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

And more people believe urban legends.
Careful, if you flash your soulmech's headlights at a dragon that doesn't have
it's headlights on they'll kill you! WITHOUT ROLEPLAYING BEFORE IT!

--------------------------


Message 5653 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 04:22:11 1998 EST
From:     Clayson (#17237)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Wake up.

Pay attention buckaroos, for history is in the making. You might think at this
point it is not as important as your pathetic childhood, your strive to
adulthood, your quest for your first sexual encounter.

Being a sheep is no longer an option. Use the brain God gave you. Strive to
persevere the essences of freedom. When you come of age, or if you are of age,
vote for what you think is right. Not what others tell you or show you on the
media. Be you, fuck the bullshit. Do what is right, and right will follow.
Never, ever bow down. We are of the USA, we do not take shit, we do not take
second, we do not hold lies. The laws are laid down for all, not just the
chosen

--------------------------


Message 5654 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 07:26:36 1998 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  #5651

I hate to break it to ya folks, but this is quite obviously an urban legend.
The HIV virus cannot survive outside of a body for any amount of time, so even
if someone with HIV were to prick themselves with a needle then jab someone
else with it there would be very little real risk of infection.

--------------------------


Message 5655 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 08:07:45 1998 EST
From:     Karma (#20542)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Ditto to Kiva...

. I've heard this story as well, but in the version I'd originally heard, it
was someone who was wandering around sleeping with strangers, then writing the
same phrase in lipstick on mirrors.

It's also, I believe, recently been added to a collection of urban legends
I've been playing with for research, with a few of its variants. If anyone's
curious, I can try to find it.

--------------------------


Message 5656 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 08:39:10 1998 EST
From:     Tira (#24173)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  AIDS and how it is spread.

Ymerith said something that I have to refute for the sake of AIDS education.
If a needle or sharp comes in contact with HIV infected  blood and then is
introduced into a noninfected person it CAN be transmitted. HIV is a weak
virus, but it can survive outside the host for up to 48 hours to be
transmitted to another. I personally know a nurse that was infected by HIV in
a needle stick accident that happened in an ICU.
HIV cannot survive out side of the cell, which is why it's only transmission
can be by serum contact, i.e.blood or semen. It cannot be transmitted by
casual contact, urine, sweat or tears.
I agree that the needle story is an urban legend, however. The truth is that
even though HIV can survive outside the host for up to 48 hours, it still is a
weak virus. It begins to decay within 30 minutes of contact with the sharp.
Usually, (and I stress usually), within 24 hours it is so weakened that it's
transmission rate is next to nil.
On an interesting side note: the first HIV vaccine to begin undergoing human
trials is currently underway at the University of Kansas Medical Center. :)
Tirafal (who just took an 8 hour seminar in AIDS and AIDS transmission about a
year ago.)

--------------------------


Message 5657 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 09:29:15 1998 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Ain't sure about urban legends or whatever, but I tell ya what.. HIV or not if
I found a needle in the seat of a theater with such a threat there would be
hell to pay.  And if I caught the poor sucker who had such a sick mind to
leave such a token they'd wish they where dead.  You do gotta becareful but I
ain't gonna let anyone run me into a closet.  So becareful I say.. But don't
get scared and stop fighting..
As for the needle, HIV isn't the only thing you can catch from such a thing..
And there are other things that do have longer lives.. So don't dismiss
anything..

Rob.

--------------------------


Message 5658 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 11:53:50 1998 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  1034 on *tp

Sorry if it was a little graphic...  Johnny just needed to share his feelings
with someone.

--------------------------


Message 5659 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 13:26:22 1998 EST
From:     Fenton_the_Death_Sheep_From_Hell (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  AIDS and Urban Legends.

That entire line began back in the 80's with Patient Zero, aka Gaetan Dugas.
He used to go to the bath houses and after sex, he would turn the lights on
and point to the lesions of Kaposi's Sarcoma on his arm. 'I have Gay Cancer,'
he'd say, 'Maybe you'll get it too'.
Just a bit o history for you.  Check out 'And the Band Played On' by Randy
Shilts.

--------------------------


Message 5660 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 13:48:37 1998 EST
From:     Durandal (#23874)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Eeefun.

Everyone be sure to heed the words of one of the mightiest of Saddam's
lackeys, the great Tariq Aziz:
Clinton is surrounded by Zionists.  Blair is surrounded by Zionists.  The
Zionists don't understand us.
Oooo.  Everyone watch out for that international Jewish conspiracy that's
causing Baghdad to be bombarded by cruise missiles.

Happy Holidays.

--------------------------


Message 5661 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 15:41:22 1998 EST
From:     Santa's_Elves_on_Crack (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  re: 5654

Or so the CDC wants you to think, kids.
Imagine, if people weren't reassured that HIV couldn't survive outside the
body. I think there'd be widespread panic, don't you?

--------------------------


Message 5662 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 15:41:59 1998 EST
From:     Santa's_Elves_on_Crack (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Oh, and there's blood in sweat, tears, even urine sometimes. go figure.

--------------------------


Message 5663 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 16:52:03 1998 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Gee, don't people read posts that immediately follow urban legends???

--------------------------


Message 5664 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 16:52:48 1998 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Read?

--------------------------


Message 5665 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 16:55:53 1998 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Okay, Gaetan Dugas was Patient Zero. I would figure this implies that he was
the first person to get AIDS or show the symptoms of AIDS. Who did he screw or
get blood from that gave him AIDS? Or did it just spontaneously appear? If it
was the latter, then I think that Patient Zero theory would hold water.

--------------------------


Message 5666 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 16:56:24 1998 EST
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Supposedly he was fucking a monkey

--------------------------


Message 5667 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 16:56:57 1998 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

I would expect that kind of answer from people who don't know how to spell.
But I'm not petty or shallow to hold that against people here. On Lambda, I'd
do it at the drop of a hat.

--------------------------


Message 5668 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 16:57:29 1998 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

AND WHO DID THAT MONKEY FUCK AND HOW DID THAT MONKEY GET INTO A BATH HOUSE???

--------------------------


Message 5669 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 16:58:23 1998 EST
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Well, I imagine the monkey was a carrier. Guy buys/aquires monkey. Guy does
less than sanitary things with monkey. Guy starts frequenting bath houses. Da.

--------------------------


Message 5670 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 16:58:47 1998 EST
From:     Eponine (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Er, perhaps you should check your own sources, Mercury.

He was referred to as Patient Zero because so many of the earliest cases of
AIDS could be directly traced back to him.  No where did it imply that he was
the FIRST patient, in fact, he was not.

--------------------------


Message 5671 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 16:59:01 1998 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Forget about the guy. MORE ABOUT THE MONKEY!

--------------------------


Message 5672 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 16:59:47 1998 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

The Monkey was a innocent bystander.. Really it was the Elephant!

--------------------------


Message 5673 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 17:01:04 1998 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

I never implied that I had sources.

--------------------------


Message 5674 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 17:01:36 1998 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

I was just posing a question. Go fuck yourself.

--------------------------


Message 5675 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 17:03:21 1998 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Sources?? We know you do you cool dude!!  Its like going to college and all
then steping out into the world to show them what you learned.. You are one of
the people who them college folk dream of and wish they could be like ya
know.. *winks*

--------------------------


Message 5676 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Dec 19 18:06:58 1998 EST
From:     Tirafal (#24173)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Patient Zero

He was referred to as Patient Zero by the CDC because he was the first person
to bring it to the US. He was a Canadian, by nationality, and  a flight
attendant for an international carrier. Speculation is that he aquired it in
Paris. The virus itself has been traced to Africa (home of ebola, too, guys.)
where it is BELIEVED to have originaly mutated in green monkeys, however that
is only theoretical. If this is true, how it made the leap from monkey to
human is unknown.

--------------------------


Message 5677 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Dec 20 11:22:42 1998 EST
From:     Janus (#3597)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Re: Patient Zero

Let's not forget the consipracy theory that the virus was engineered by the
army. Whee!
Maybe they tested it on some monkeys in africa? Africa has long been a test
ground for all kind of interesting weapons.

--------------------------


Message 5678 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Dec 21 07:31:57 1998 EST
From:     Eponine (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Special Congrats and Best Wishes...

It's a beautiful Winter's day outside, a crystalline blanket of snow spread
across the sleeping city this early in the morning.  The first snowfall of the
season.
Everyone please congradulate Denali and Tira, who are to be married this
evening, two hearts kept apart now finally twining as one tonight.  May their
love shine as brightly as the distant stars above.

And to everyone else, peace, love, joy and happiness no matter what Diety you
worship or what faith you follow.

P'nine/Chrissa

--------------------------


Message 5679 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Dec 21 07:51:05 1998 EST
From:     Tirafal (#24173)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Tonight is the Solstice and Denali and I will be consecrating our relationship
into a marriage of hearts, minds and bodies. Just as the WinterSolstice
represents the end of darkness on the earth and the return of the Sun to
nourish and warm the Earth, my marriage to him is the return of my heart to
life and love. He is more then my lover....he is my best friend, my companion,
and no one can ever know how happy I am that he believes in me to the extent
that he has asked me to spend the rest of my life with him.
This is my gift to him....to publically say what he means to me. And just as
the snow has blanketed the Earth in crystal beauty, his love blankets me to
shine in the light of the day.
Happy Solstice, my beloved. May our lives together be a haven of peace and
love.

--------------------------


Message 5680 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Dec 21 07:58:08 1998 EST
From:     Phantom_Rose (#6337)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Blessings

I wish blessings to the magical couple and hope their path leads to much
happiness and joy.  Let this special joining be as the seasons join on this
night and life sees a new day and beginning.

Blessings to all.

--------------------------


Message 5681 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Dec 21 08:59:30 1998 EST
From:     Tarla (#18104)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Damn....

Words fail me.  I WANT to post a nice little bit of flowing prose honoring
Denali and Tirafal, congratulating them on thier wedding this evening, and
wishing them all the happiness in the world.  But somehow words seem to fail
me.  SO I suppose this will have to do.

Tira.... Denali.... May the Goddess look kindly on your union and bless you
with true happiness in the years to come.

And Happy Winter Solstice Everyone!

Denise.

--------------------------


Message 5682 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Dec 21 09:23:54 1998 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Well, what can I say?

Here's to two of the best friends a person could ever wish to have.  You guys
have meant more to me than anyone has a right to, thank you for sharing some
of your joy with me.  I look at my life and think about how hopeless and
lonely it is to be me, then I look at you two and smile.  You give me hope
that maybe someday I can be happy with another person, someone I choose and
who chooses me.  We'd be content together, caring only about each other's
happiness, as I see the two of you do.  I hope someday to find someone to
depend on me like you two depend on each other, someone to justify my
existence like the two of you complete each other.

Somehow I always end up writing about myself. :(      TTFN, Mike  Thanks you
guys.

--------------------------


Message 5683 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Dec 21 09:35:35 1998 EST
From:     Akeashar (#20348)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Den and Tira

Well, let's say first off this really makes my day today :)

Denali -- I've known you like a brother for nearly a year and a half now. be
it through thick or thin, you were there to help me out. Your love for Tirafal
is strong, and I trust in the future it will remain strong--perhaps stronger.
As much as I wish I could attend this joyous event and can't, my heart will be
with you both.

Tirafal -- Though I really haven't gotten to know you as much as I felt I
should, you have always been someone I could chat with, someone who could
understand some of the stuff, someone who thought like I did (GMTA ;)). As I
have said, I know of the strength of your love with Denali, and hopes it
manifests further in the future.

With these qualities in mind, I feel you both will be there constantly for
each other--to be a shoulder to cry on, to be someone who will help with a
problem, someone to chat with.

I'm not really good at saying how I feel, but I love you both and give my best
wishes. (PS. think about June '99 ;))

DJR '98

--------------------------


Message 5684 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Dec 21 12:53:43 1998 EST
From:     DragonBabe (#5288)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  To Denali and Tirafal

An Irish Blessing.
May the blessing of light be upon you, light without and light within. May the
blessed sunshine shine down upon you and warm your hearts till it glows like a
great peat fire, so that the stranger may come and warm himself at it, and
also a friend.
And may the light shine out of the two eyes of you, like a candle set in the
two windows of a house, bidding the wanderer come in out of the storm; and may
the blessings of the rain be upon you - the soft, sweet rain. May it fall upon
your spirits so that all the little flowers may spring up and shed their
sweetness on the air. And may blessings of the Great Rains be upon you, may
they beat upon your spirit and wash it fair and clean, and leave there many a
shining pool where the of blue heaven shines, and sometimes a star.
And may the blessings of the earth be upon you - the great round earth, may
you ever have a kindly greeting for those you pass as your're going along the
roads. May the earth be soft beneath you when you rest upon it, tired at the
end of day.
Blessings, happiness, joy and long life to you both.

--------------------------


Message 5685 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Dec 21 15:05:52 1998 EST
From:     Tirafal (#24173)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Thank You

Denali and I want to thank everybody that's posted, paged and MOOmailed us
their congratulations and happiness for us on our marriage. They mean more
then most people know, as Denali and I met online on a MOO. Getting to where
we are now was not easy. At the time we met we lived on opposite sides of the
country; I in Washington State and he in Tennessee. But over the course of the
first few months it became obvious to us that we had to meeet face to face and
see if this was real. In June of this year I left Washington and went to
Tennessee to meet him. I ended up staying for close to three months. I then
had to leave him again and go to Kansas as my children live here. We stayed
together over the 'net while we waited for things to come together so that we
could be together again. Finally, a little over a month ago, he joined me here
in Kansas. This relationship was built on a lot of effort, a lot of miles and
a lot of love. But the 'net is what kept us constant and together. And the
love and support of the friends we have online has played a large part in
helping us stay together. So give yourself credit, people. You may not be here
physically tonight, but many of you will be here in spirit with us. We'll
carry you there in our hearts.

--------------------------


Message 5686 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Dec 21 21:55:17 1998 EST
From:     Eponine (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Announcement.

Sound the Wedding bells, Denali and Tira are now husband and wife!
Rand officiated the ceremony and Tira's rl daughter and I played the part of
witnesses.
The happy couple have been blessed by the Goddess and the God in the company
of friends and family.

Blessed be to everyone!

--------------------------


Message 5687 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 23 02:22:34 1998 EST
From:     Anubis (#22578)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  New Moo

Come join the fun at drealms.planetmud.com 1234. The new moo, Darkrealms is
now opened. Exciting themes and good rpg and combat. If you ever wanted to be
a stat-god, nows your chance!
Join the fun!

--------------------------


Message 5688 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 23 09:27:29 1998 EST
From:     Mulder (#709)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  fits of boredom

In another fit of boredom (there really isn't much to do when it's 27 degrees
out and 4 in the morning) I created a web page with a little pseudo-tour of my
office.  Enjoy.  (Or not.)

http://www.57thstreet.com/tour/

--------------------------


Message 5689 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 23 09:51:48 1998 EST
From:     Mulder (#709)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  addendum

One can notice the changes and similarities between the tour page I wrote two
and a half years ago at the first ISP I worked at...

http://www.itouch.net/tour/

--------------------------


Message 5690 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 23 12:29:54 1998 EST
From:     Dante (#10660)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Bleargh.

You must be kidding, with Nomar of all people as a WIZ? My expectations on
that New MOO just dropped.

--------------------------


Message 5691 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 23 14:16:30 1998 EST
From:     The_Grak (#14787)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Apoligize to everyone ELSE who has to hear this.

Sorry Dante, You weren't exactly on the list of people who we really wanted to
come anyway.  Having new players is always fun but someone with your
reputation isn't exactly a way to have otehr characters enjoy the game.  What
say we plalittle game? What Would Dante do on a New Moo?
1) Have an accident in his pants when he can't find a Tek to favour him.
2) Pee on himself when he gets busted for creating 30 different characters.
Each who seem to rescue his other selves from certain death.
3) Be embarassed for using a player like Anansi to steal from logged off
players using a pet.
4) Not log on because he would get PK'ed at least twice a day without his
stats backing him up.
These are the reasons why Dante doesn't wanna go on Dark Realms.  Now then if
YOU would like to go on it would be much appreciated.
Sorry for forcing everyone to listen to my gripe but I don't feel that
bad-mouthing nomar was the way to get your (Dante) point across that you can't
play well with others unless you're cheating.
Anonymous Dark Realms Staff Member

Also I'd like to thanks many of the TEKS and GEOS here for helping us rookies
out when we got stuck. Also, Big Big BIg thanks to Quinn for making the mother
of a CORES and letting us use it.

--------------------------


Message 5692 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 23 14:17:31 1998 EST
From:     Dante (#10660)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  I'll politely excuse my public post and ignore the last statement. *grin*


--------------------------


Message 5693 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 23 14:17:54 1998 EST
From:     Akeashar (#20348)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Alright

THIS PLACE IS NOT FOR FLAMES. TAKE IT TO PAGES

Ake

--------------------------


Message 5694 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 23 14:18:52 1998 EST
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

More flames on *chat, please.

--------------------------


Message 5695 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 23 14:19:35 1998 EST
From:     Sterno (#21938)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Happy Holidays

What are the holidays without a few flames to keep us warm, anyway?

--------------------------


Message 5696 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 23 21:50:12 1998 EST
From:     Eponine (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  A sweet moment.

I visited the family tonight.  Whilst there, my grandparents actually got to
see each other for the first time in months, they've both been failing in
health and when my grandmother had a fall, she was unable to see my
grandfather in the hospital anymore.  So, my grandfather is much better (my
thanks to anyone who sent a few nice thoughts his way) and is currently
staying with my Aunt so she can take care of him.  My grandmother was brought
over tonight and the two of them went into my grandfather's room and held
hands and talked and talked.  It was so sweet, and speaks well of the love and
devotion the two have had for each other for well over fifty years.

I have to admit, though their health is failing, their hearts are not.  I will
truly miss them both once they are gone from my life.

--------------------------


Message 5697 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Dec 23 22:11:44 1998 EST
From:     Clayson (#17237)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  re: Mulders

mmmm...I can think of a few things to cure that boredom :) And Nomar, you keep
building your moo and they will come. I think it's wonderful that it's up and
running. Okey, I will be shutting up now cause I'm starting to make myself
sick.

--------------------------


Message 5698 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Thu Dec 24 02:52:05 1998 EST
From:     Zorn (#24462)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Win98 Question.

Under normal circumstances when I used MSIE or Netscape and entered in a
address or bookmark when I wasn't connected it automatically started up dial
up network. I've installed Win98 on a new drive and it's not doing this. Any
ideas from anyone why not? It's a tiny bit annoying to have to run dial up to
connect where as before it did it automatically.

--------------------------


Message 5699 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Thu Dec 24 11:44:48 1998 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Happy Holidays..

Just thought I'd wish you all a happy holiday since I ain't on much lately..
How ever you worship.
Things are going ok around my house and with my Mom, I just kinda fell apart
recently and so thats why I've been away or afk a lot.  My crohn's is flaring
up and I got myself a Ulcer in my esophogus that is very unpleasant at most
times.  But the medication they got me on is working so that helps except for
the strange side effects of the steriods.

Everyone be happy and hopefully soon we'll get some good ol classic rp going
and have fun with it.. I do apologize for dampening some of it but thats just
me and we'll work about that..

Anyhow, Happy Kwanza, Happy Hanukkah, or Merry Christmas.. And blessings on
you all..

Robert

--------------------------


Message 5700 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Thu Dec 24 13:18:33 1998 EST
From:     Denali (#18459)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  For those of you who use Pueblo... The final word.

Notice!

 Chaco Communications will no longer be able to support Pueblo, our multimedia
Mud client. We are looking for parties interested in commercializing
 Pueblo and continuing its development.

 If you are interested, please send email to Steve Kanzler
(steve@likeminds.com). Your email should explain how you intend to
commercialize Pueblo, as
 well as your background and experience.


 Chaco was a company which built software for Internet-based immersive
real-time virtual communities. To help people communicate effectively our
 multiuser client application, Pueblo, supports 3D graphics, avatars,
hypertext, music, voice, text, and plug-in media. Pueblo is still available
from this web
 site.

 On April 1st, 1997, Chaco merged into a new company called LikeMinds.
LikeMinds produces incredibly great collaborative filtering software. Check
out our
 web site!

 The Chaco products VR Scout & Tribe are no longer available.

--------------------------


Message 5701 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Fri Dec 25 02:36:23 1998 EST
From:     Akeashar (#20348)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Poking Fun

http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/snotley/space1.gif

--------------------------


Message 5702 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Fri Dec 25 10:15:33 1998 EST
From:     Happy_Noodle_Boy (#20348)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Adobe Photodeluxe

I got a brand new UMAX Astra 610p Desktop Scanner for christmas. It came with
Adobe Photodeluxe. I tried to install Photodeluxe and after it goes through
the installshield, it just dies completely.. refuses to respond. Any help is
appreciated.

Ake

--------------------------


Message 5703 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Fri Dec 25 10:59:38 1998 EST
From:     Midnight (#20635)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  MERRY CHRISTMAS

Well Santa didn't get me anything this year. *pouts* I must of been a very bad
girl this year.

--------------------------


Message 5704 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Fri Dec 25 12:10:50 1998 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Oh boy!

I do side jobs for a company that has the service contract for UMAX, sort of a
repair techie type deal.  Unfortunately all we deal with is hardware and send
software problems up on to the vendor.

--------------------------


Message 5705 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Fri Dec 25 21:58:12 1998 EST
From:     Ylaerin (#16541)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Warning

Next post equals spam! :)

-Jess

--------------------------


Message 5706 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Fri Dec 25 21:58:44 1998 EST
From:     Sterno (#21938)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Liar.

--------------------------


Message 5707 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Fri Dec 25 22:02:04 1998 EST
From:     Ylaerin (#16541)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Trees..

There was a sort of ongoing debate on my Tad Williams Listserve about fake
trees versus real trees.. I shared this story with them, and I'd like to share
it with you guys too -- even though I know that many of you don't celebrate
"Christmas" in teh Christian sense (if at all).. but it's not really a
Christmas story, so I hope you'll bear with me...

I'll start by saying -- in the grand tradition of Dave Barry --
that I am not making this up.

(and also I will apologize for the odd format, if any)

No one ever really beleives this story, but all I have to say to them is,
"Well, if you knew my great-uncle Snuffy, then you'd believe me.."  Snuffy
(Clarence) was my dad's-father's-brother... the kind of 'crazy' old uncle whom
everyone in the family adores. Snuff flew a canary yellow Cessna airplane
until his sight failed (well, even after his sight failed, but you get my
drift). He told the best stories about my grandfather, who died when I was 2
1/2, and about the rest of the family... including -his- uncle Charlie who was
a key member of the Dillinger gang.  Snuff lived in the house he was raised
in, The Old Homestead, all of his life and every morning at 9 the rest of his
brothers and sisters (a few had passed, and a few lived elsewhere) would meet
in the kitchen and talk until lunchtime.  He smoked cigars (which is why the
smell doesn't bother me in the least). He always had Nutter Butter Cookies.

My dad and I visited him quite often, sitting around the table, and poking
through the attic. One weekend between Thanksgiving and Christmas, we were up
at the Old Homestead chatting with Snuff and he dragged us into the parlor to
see the Christmas tree.  My dad and I ooohed and ahhhed in a suitable fashion
-- it was a kind of homely little thing, skinny and plastic-y, but with nice
antique ornaments and lots of tinsel. Snuffy was very very proud of it.

He turned to my father with a grin on his face (which I can still see, even
now, more than 2 years later and more than a year after his death -- he was
good right up until the last few months, and then he started to confuse me
with my mother, and all sorts of other things).. anyway, he turned to my dad
and said, "Wanna know where I got it?"

My dad nodded.

"I cut it down out back," he said, and that's when I could see his punch-line
coming.. he got this little glimmer about him and grnined wider, "I cut it
down myself."

I looked at the tree. It was green literally all over - trunk and all.  I
would have bet money that it was store bought, and not that pricey. My dad
said, "Oh.. Really?"

Snuffy laughed, leaned in like he was letting us in on a big secret. "Six
years ago," he whispered.

My dad and I started to grin, too, as my dad asked, "So how do you keep it?"

"Every year," Snuffy said, pulling gently on the needles (which would -not-
come loose), "I put on another coat of green spray paint and stand it in the
corner of the garage."

I will never forget it; it is one of my most treasured memories of Uncle
Snuffy, and the one I always tell my friends and my dad's cousins at get
togethers.  I told it to my cousin Ann at the luncheon following his funeral,
and she laughed so hard her husband had to get her a glass of water.  I wish I
could portray the story better, but so much of it is caught up in knowing
"that look" he would get.

That Christmas Tree -- the 6 year old, spray painted, live tree -- bridges the
gap between "real" and "fake".. and I hope I don't sound too mushy when I say
that it is probably my favorite out of all the trees I've seen or known.

Merry Christmas, everyone. And even if you don't celebrate Christmas, have a
happy holiday, a lovely season, and may your best gifts always be memories of
the people you love, and the ways in which life can be wonderful, even though
it's dismal sometimes as well.

My love and thoughts,
Jess

--------------------------


Message 5708 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Dec 27 11:13:08 1998 EST
From:     Eponine (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Everyone wish Wes a happy birthday today!

--------------------------


Message 5709 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Dec 27 11:47:51 1998 EST
From:     Wes (#24588)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  my birfday

Don't wish me one!  Only like four people know me here.  I appreciate your
thoughts of 'who the hell is Wes' when you read the last on *chat, though.  ;)

--------------------------


Message 5710 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Dec 27 18:43:28 1998 EST
From:     Heretic (#6143)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Microwave Furby...

http://www.newgrounds.com/assassin/furby/index.html

--------------------------


Message 5711 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Dec 29 21:23:18 1998 EST
From:     Nomar (#17488)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Computers

I'm thinking of buying a new computer but I'm not sure of which type to get. I
want a computer that isn't going to be really expensive but I want it to be
powerful and fast enough to run the latest applications, games and so on. Any
help would be greatly appreciated. Also, tell me any computers that I should
not get.

Thanks

--------------------------


Message 5712 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Dec 29 22:44:30 1998 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  re: Computers


Nomar,

There are a lot of good deals out there right now when it comes to buying a
PC.  I'd get a idea what you want it to do, ie.. Run games ect.. Want sound?
Then I'd go through your phone book and find a local computer store that
builds machines.. you can usually have one custom built for less than going to
'Best Buy' and getting the brand name computer such as Packard Bell, or those
other main names..  Only one I've heard good about is Dell.. But then again I
ain't sure about most..  I had a 233mhz system built with 64meg ram and a 6.8
gig hard drive.. sound, color, 32x CD, ZIP drive, plus lots of other goodies
for about $1000..  But today I know you can get a 333mhz machine loaded the
same for about the same price..  So give it a shop.. Ask questions and try to
stay away from computers with propritary parts.. Packard Bell is one..  That
means you can't upgrade later on as easy..

Rob.

--------------------------


Message 5713 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Fri Jan  1 08:59:02 1999 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Happy New year!!

Wow, first with the Happy New year post! Must of been some wild partying going
on..

Happy New Year everyone and hope 99' is better then 98'!

Robert

--------------------------


Message 5714 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sat Jan  2 11:20:09 1999 EST
From:     Sterno (#21938)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  I hate snow

Friggin' two feet at the base of the driveway into the parking lot. Can't go
to campus and log in *mutter mutter mutter*

--------------------------


Message 5715 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan  3 16:35:45 1999 EST
From:     Dante (#10660)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Pages.

if anyone left me a saved page today, send it again if I didn't answer back.
Accidently expunged, heh ;)

--------------------------


Message 5716 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan  3 19:55:18 1999 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

I pass along my love during this New Year season, especially to the snowbound.
May your relatives taste fresh, not gamey while attempting to survive.

--------------------------


Message 5717 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan  4 19:08:41 1999 EST
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Re: 91 on *news

Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

--------------------------


Message 5718 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan  4 19:09:13 1999 EST
From:     Eponine (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Shut up, bloody peasant!

--------------------------


Message 5719 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan  4 19:09:38 1999 EST
From:     Akeashar (#20348)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

No gruel for you, slave!

--------------------------


Message 5720 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan  4 19:10:13 1999 EST
From:     Eponine (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Please sir, I'd like some more.

--------------------------


Message 5721 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Jan  6 11:51:36 1999 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Thought for the day.

Why are we so worried about protecting oil producing countries?  Last I
checked gas was about $1.00/gallon, while milk is about $2.35/gallon.

--------------------------


Message 5722 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Jan  6 11:59:39 1999 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Oh yeah...

Happy Three King's Day to those of you who celebrate it.

--------------------------


Message 5723 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Jan  6 12:57:55 1999 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Milk/Gas

Well.. I understand your question but I wouldn't pretend to know the answer..
Except $$$ and Greed.. You can't run a army on milk I suppose and you can't
move anything without fuel.. But I suspect there are other reasons in the
woodwork..  They say, that the U.S has reserves and oil fields that are far
far more rich than the Middle East so why would we care?  Why does a world
faced with the troubles of polution and all still strive to use fuels that
could be outdated?  Oh well.. Now I'm ranting.. Sorry about that..

R.

--------------------------


Message 5724 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Jan  6 13:49:00 1999 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Of course you can't run an army on milk. Every soldier would be doubled over
gripping their stomach from the gas pains if they weren't running to the
bathroom with violent diarrhea.

--------------------------


Message 5725 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Jan  6 17:43:46 1999 EST
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Still offering a crystal reward to anyone who can find me an MP3 of 'Time is
on my side' by The Rolling Stones :)

--------------------------


Message 5726 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 03:02:39 1999 EST
From:     Skywalker (#6644)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Boosting and stats (what else?)

In case you haven't already noticed, boosting has changed a bit around here
(or a lot depending on how you look at it).  Boosting melee is now a lot
tougher than it was before (and if you're anything like me, it was _really_
tough).  Also, when you get a boost in 'weapon skills' (bladed, blunt, whip,
brawl, etc) and medic (those are the only ones I know of), your skill will
raise a maximum of 4 points (so far as I know).
Now, I know 1 extra point doesn't sound like a lot, but it can really add up
over time and I've already seen some significant changes in my stats after
boosting only twice today.  Yeah, it'll certainly help newbies get their stats
up to the current averages a lot faster, but the stats of older players are
also going to get higher faster.  From what I can see, the only thing this
will accomplish is making the averages higher and the maximums larger.  It's
going to be a lot easier to get a 4-digit bladed.
In reference to the changes in melee, it's going to make things pretty hard on
newbies and people who don't even have an average melee.  See, as it is, the
melee skill is basically frozen.  If you have a high melee, you've got it
made but if you don't, too bad.  Anybody that engages in combat with the
exception of those using throwing and ranged weapons gets a bonus that is
calculated based on your melee.  In the not-so-long run, you make all new
players a lot weaker than they should be because they won't be getting much of
a chance to boost a skill that other players have.
The reason all of this was done is beyond me.  From what I understand, one is
basically a trade-off for the other but I'm really having a problem
comprehending why any of them were necessary in the first place.  Virtually
the only other solution to freezing melee is to completely reroll it, but
what was the problem in the first place?  I would have liked to have seen a
lot more discussion before any change took place or at least more of an
explanation of it.  I remember some kind of notice about the melee change but
I have a feeling that most people who read it had no idea what it meant (it's
#292 on *db for those of you who don't know).  So what I'm asking for here is
a public explanation of what I've addressed and maybe hear some opinions from
those of you who feel like pushing me off the soapbox.
Something to think about.

--Sky

--------------------------


Message 5727 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 05:55:46 1999 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  previous and other stuff!


First off, I don't think stats are all that big of a deal any longer.  Of
course by making the playing field so (hmm, not sure which word to use here.)
level?  The game loses that challange to the individual.  It never was fare
that only the people who could be online 24/7 could use the system to be the
best.  And a person joining the game at this time faces humiliation
discovering that even through (excellent) rp they are unable to gain respect
in the game from older players.  So stats high or low in a game such as this
shouldn't be a issue.  Each generation of GW'er can't expect to come online
and have their stats match someone who has been here for 4 years.. But then
that was lost already .. So that bonus of age really don't matter.
Stats aside, the game has also lost heart for many.  We try to liven it up but
without cooperation and input of simulation of some kind there is little we
can do to make people play with each other.. In saying this I don't think I'm
being to cruel..
Quinn and the older tech's who use to work here and pretty much built this
place are wonders indeed.. Quinn has done a wonderful job addressing the
issues and making it fare for all..
Aside from that recent events have damaged the overall playing field.. I am
not sure what can be done but I do not feel it is Quinn's fault or the
players.. In this I think I'd put blame on those in the 'Staff' who have only
pursuded their personal goals and wants.. Changing the old GW to meet their
own images.. They have done this slowly or quickly.. And... There are those in
the 'Staff' who have sat quietly ignoring and not wanting to get involved..  A
game can't be played if there is no direction.. A story can't unfold without
certian stimulation..  Only in recent times it has become a 'clique' world..
You belong or you are outcast..  The whole moo and players have nothing to do
or think about to get them wanting to rp in a direction beyond simple
stimulation of a conversation..

There are some in the 'Staff' still try.. But they meet resistance and soon
lose faith.

I miss the old days.. Only because there where things going on that a nobody
like me could step into and even after a time become a part of that story.. I
often looked like a idiot but I was able to have that chance and explore a
world that wasn't so much descriptive but had mystery in it that I might
discover some secret ..  If you saw a bad guy you were not afraid to fight
that person.. Now we are forced to sit side by side with them for fear of stat
reduction if we actually play and use stats to best him/her/it...  If not stat
reduction just complete bad sportsmanship on a argument that you pk'd..

Ok.. Those are my thoughts on that..

God bless Quinn and GW!!! The old staff where angles who created a world for
the imagination.. I miss them..  Ol Guru, RH, Mulder, Stalinger, Kynwal and
the others I've forgotten they haven't been around in so long.. They mattered
greatly..

Anyhow.. These are my feelings.. I think beyond levelings and stat freezes I
look forward to the day when Quinn fires this current staff and calls in the
old staff who made this place great.. Then we can get back to some serious
RP..

Red.


--------------------------


Message 5728 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 07:55:15 1999 EST
From:     Karma (#20542)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Thanks Red.

--------------------------


Message 5729 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 11:22:09 1999 EST
From:     Firestarter (#24588)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Everything lately...

Alot of people don't know who I am (except for maybe from the recent
'incident' yesterday in the R/T lounge...heh), but I've actually seen plently
of changes my short period of time here.  I was here back when melee was a
bitch to boost, but it wasn't hard as now.  I was here when suddenly if you
were underaverage, you couldn't boost a certain skill more than once a minute.
I was also here when performing first-aid took A MINUTE (thanks alot, Sterno).
And then, there was FATIGUE.  The point is, we protested every bit of it,
anything that made us a bit more on our toes.  And that isn't bad.  In fact,
what if we would've sat there on our hands?  Maybe the staff could've been
suggesting other horrible things on other lists, while we stand by waiting for
the next bomb to drop.
However, always being notified of new changes on a list like *chat _would_ be
nice...but that doesn't matter too much.  It seems lately...I had an old
character here, he would be about 300 and something days old today if I hadn't
offed him.  And back then, people like Jayden )or however you spell it) were
around.  He was one of the condemned 'player favorers'.  And he was gotten rid
of.  But think of this way...he gave crap to his friends, right?  And he did
what they wanted him to.  Let's think for a minute...the current staff seems
to only take suggestions from a few players who are good friends, and they act
like nothing more than an electric blanket to those few, actually dancing
about at their whims.  What does this remind you of?  Exactly, a situation
unfolding long ago.  I'd have to applaud Robert and tell him he was the man
for his last post, because...my age in game days is so low, of course nobody
listens to me.
The point to this rant is that, as Rob so beautifully put it...the staff is
making everything to their own images.  But really, they aren't required to
make a high-statted pc alt to RP, 'cuz if they want a powerhouse for stats,
they just make an NPC.  And why do they just take suggestions from a few good
brown-nosing goobers who seem to always get their way?  Because they think
that they know what's good for _all_ of us.  Instead of not letting them shape
this MOO how they, one who knows everything about it, want it, why not
actually listen to the *ideas list?  Trust me, we know what we're talking
about...because we experience everytime we log in.  And personally, this MOO
has risen me to great lengths of anger, with changes always hurting the
low-statted players such as myself, leaving RP futile until you've got all
your hourly boosts and you can RP for about 50 minutes before hitting the
wheel.  I am growing sick of this MOO...how the changes are brought about like
a natural disaster, with _so_ much protest...it amazes me, how a staff can
just shit on _so_ many player's ideas.  Earlier I was going to leave this MOO
because I was too easily offended by people joking around with me.  But I came
back the next day.  But now, I believe if I were to announce I was leaving, I
truly would.  But I don't wan't to end it that way.  I'm going to bring back
RP with a terrorist who sets himself on fire.  But then again, if you don't
have good stats and you tell other PCs (older, stronger ones) that for the
sake of RP you only do uncoded combat...that really ain't for to them and all
the work they've put into their stats...So Quinn, please, _please_ try to make
sense of this post.  You've been a cool guy everytime I've logged in...so
please don't let something like this ruin you and your MOO's great image.

--------------------------


Message 5730 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 12:44:30 1999 EST
From:     Akeashar (#20348)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Favoritism

Well, I for one do not consider myself a favoritist--being a member of the
evil naughty staff and all. I ask people for advice and opinions, they give
input, and I sort through it. I pick the ones that are in theme, are cool, and
basically well thought out. If people think I'm doing a favoritistic job, then
you direct it to me or #2 himself, not to a public list. Flames aren't cool,
and basically telling me--no.. accusing me of favoritism really blows goat.

Thanks,
Ake

--------------------------


Message 5731 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 12:50:28 1999 EST
From:     Sterno (#21938)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Stats/etc

Stop whining about the medic time increase already, sheesh *grin* Quinn
wouldn't have done it if he didnt' agree with the idea.

On another note, worrying about NPC stats is really trivial, in my opinion.
The GM's aren't out to get to make sparring harder because they have NPC's
whose stats they can set. I think almost every GM here would much rather see
the system back how it used to be, when stats were close and battles had an
element of unpredictability. Combat here is almost meaningless with the
current stats system.. a difference of 50-100 in bladed between you and your
opponent can mean that you'll NEVER hit the person, and since stats are
getting way up there.. when they get up to the 800's, a difference of 50 is
only like 6-7%. What fun is it to only be 6-7% better than someone and win in
combat EVERY time?

AT least we have shotguns, the great equalizer :)

Anyway, this isn't a rant or a complaint. I just think people should stop
worrying about stats, as they are basically meaningless. The only use I've
ever had for mine is to avoid twinkish random PK's that disrupt RP.

--------------------------


Message 5732 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 12:52:12 1999 EST
From:     Akeashar (#20348)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Red's post

>Aside from that recent events have damaged the overall playing field.. I am
not sure what can be done but I do not feel it is Quinn's fault or the
players.. In this I think I'd put blame on those in the 'Staff' who have only
pursuded their personal goals and wants.. Changing the old GW to
 meet their own images.. They have done this slowly or quickly.. And... There
are those in the 'Staff' who have sat quietly ignoring and not wanting to get
involved..  A game can't be played if there is no direction.. A story can't
unfold without certian stimulation..  Only in recent times it has become a
'clique' world.. You belong or you are outcast..  The whole moo and players
have nothing to do or think about to get them wanting to rp in a direction
beyond simple stimulation of a conversation..


I'll try to respond to that the best I can think of -- Name people who have
sat around quietly ignoring and not wanting to get involved, because In the
past few months, I've seen everyone "getting off their asses" and chipping in
to do work, weither -you- realize it or not. Clique world? I fail to see how.
You RP to get along in this world, you don't go waving a sword pretending
you're the ruler of the world. Hmm. The whole moo and players have nothing to
do.. many a time people have asked to RP (someone did just as I was posting),
but either people are elsemoo, idle, or busy with other things. I don't blame
them, hell, I myself RP elsemoo, scrabble here, elsemoo, code on various
MOOs.. if you want to blame someone for the lack of RP - Blame yourself. don't
blame others, they have done nothing wrong. I do admit the player base has
mainly been hunting or sparring, but heck, just last night there was some RP
going down, and there was some RP the other nights..

What am I trying to say. hmm. well.. judge not lest you be judged yourself.
Feel free to judge me, I'm more than happy to discuss.

Ake
</rant>

--------------------------


Message 5733 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 12:52:59 1999 EST
From:     Sterno (#21938)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  My math

It was off a bit.. I think it would have been 16%, not 6%. But anyhow...

--------------------------


Message 5734 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 12:56:51 1999 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Akea

It is amazing how thoughts and opinions can transform into words that sting
another in the slightest to tempt them to try to turn the words back on the
wielder..  You only can be content with what is in your own heart and mind..
You answered many things of the whys.. But then you failed to see..

--------------------------


Message 5735 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 13:08:19 1999 EST
From:     Clayson (#17237)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  re: skills

Well since Sky brought it up, for the last four days I have boosted neither
armed or unarmed. I get one boost message per skill, so I am assuming this is
going to blunt, blade d, whip and brawl depending on the weapon I am using. Is
this due to the new skill change, if so, how do you boost armed and unarmed
now?

--------------------------


Message 5736 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 13:26:22 1999 EST
From:     Yalindra (#13170)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Recents postings

I hate to interject into a nice series of flames about the staff, so
I'll be brief. Would someone mind horribly telling me or this list about
the incidences where wizzen have favored players or built areas "in
their own image"? Maybe I'm just stupid, or have been walking around
with my eyes closed for a while...I admit I haven't been on that
frequently, either, so would someone please enlighten me? I think
we'd all like to see some nice evidence and proof to these allegations,
as if the staff are being naughty, it's in all our best interests to
know. Much thanks.

--------------------------


Message 5737 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 13:30:08 1999 EST
From:     Tirafal (#24173)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

I have to agree with Sterno. I haven't been on here a year but I've worked my
ass off for decent stats. The only reason I have is because there are certain
players on this MOO that have high stats that have no compunction about pking
and I'm damned if I'll go down to another player. And every stat I have I have
WORKED for. Nothing has ever been handed to me.
I really resent the charge of favoritism. My husband is a GM and I can
guarantee you that we have bent over backwards to keep things ethical. He will
hardly touch my .sheet for changes, much less make anything "special" for me.
As for listening to me about this MOO....forget it. We keep it VERY strictly
seperated. Any ideas I have had for this MOO have always gone to *ideas, *chat
or straight to #2 himself.
I would like evidence of the allegations made against the staff. Personally, I
think they work their ass off for this MOO.
Cliques? I've RPed with anybody and everybody I could get my hands on. Doesn't
sound cliquish to me.

--------------------------


Message 5738 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 13:52:37 1999 EST
From:     Clayson (#17237)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  re: my last post.

I guess I spoke to soon. Just got an armed boost :) so you can ignore it.


--------------------------


Message 5739 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 14:07:28 1999 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

I think favoritism is very seldom done and is watched like a hawk so I don't
really accuse anyone of openly doing that.. If I was to go that far I know I'd
of been guilty in the past at one point or another..  So that is my opinion on
that subject.
As for stats, I don't think they are a big issue except in the sence that
people want to achieve something greater than others.. So you can take that
how it is.. Depends on the person...
As for the 'Staff' there is much evidence in some areas.. Some of it is
innocently seen by some but a great insult to others..

Here is a list for short.

1. Creating RP situations where the gm poses his/her/its will on that
situation on who can participate.  It is done by innocent ways but it is
obvious that those who are not in favor (I use this term not in the same sence
as favoritism would be seen.) are completely ignored at the attempt to join
the rp.  The word concent is used to justify said actions saying.. You gotta
have my concent to rp with my stuff or my idea..  This is harder to be seen
that it is felt.. But it does cause some resentment among players..
2. Now this one gets me..  As a 'Staff' member you where given a job to do..
You are capable and talented to do that job.. And of course hopefully mature
enough to handle critisim..  But you attempt an idea and you are blasted for
it.. So you create friction anyhow before relenting and then go off and brood
over it.. Then like a jelly fish you do not stand for anything any longer..
You lose your place to make wise and contributing descissions about the world.
You spectate and hold your resentment..
3. Otherworlders..  This is ok in my book.. But for a GW 'Staff' member to
devote time to GW is what they are here for.. They don't have to do this being
a free person.. But to sit on 'public channels' and brag or devote time to
discussing otherworld activities is not only a insult to those who come to GW
to play but also say that "Hey, this staff member thinks this other moo is so
great why don't I go there??"  So that causes a lack of RP.. The staff is
responsible for the world here.. They are not called GM's because they are
great minds.. They are game masters.. That means creating plots and devices
for players to use or discover..
4. And then there are those 'Staff' members who take what is best of GW and go
off and are creating their own moo worlds draining GW of their resourses.. I
did this once and I am only greatful that my mind was too fieble to do that
task.. When all I wanted was for GW to be what it was.

Of course you can do what you want being free in this world.. But take time to
consider the actions.. When I speak of the Staff I include best friends to
Foes.. They are all guilty with very few exceptions like Master Mulder who is
in even his idleness a icon to GW..

I don't name names and I don't think it is really a flame war I am looking for
here.. I am just giving you all my opinion because I can.. I don't like fowl
language and these people are talented or they wouldn't be where they are.. I
just am aware of how I feel on these things..

Red.

--------------------------


Message 5740 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 14:11:57 1999 EST
From:     Karma (#20542)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

I have to agree with a few of the previous posts that have been made.

If you're going to sling public mud, make public, fact-based accusations.

Hearsay, paranoia, and imagined `crimes' are not something to accuse people
of. The people you are accusing specifically, since "anyone who was not
old-time staff" was mentioned are as follows:

Eponine
Heretic
Akeashar
Denali
Bishamon
Ariadne
Karma

Every last one of these people, though not named by name, is apparently
accused. Not naming the name isn't damning the person.

Until people realize that everyone, players -and- staff, work together to make
a place work, it isn't going to work. End of story.

--------------------------


Message 5741 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 14:14:19 1999 EST
From:     Akeashar (#20348)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  In response

1) Name some instances. not just broad speculation.
2) Uhh. okay. name some instances.
3) I feel no obligation to keep my chat about other MOOs from the public
channels.
4) I can make my own MOOs as I wish. No big deal, otherwise Quinn wouldn't
have released the ghostcore.

Dude, all you're doing is causing a meaningless debate in which you just make
people angered at you. Your posts may be considered "valid discussion", but I
see them as bashes, plain and simple.

Ake

--------------------------


Message 5742 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 14:28:19 1999 EST
From:     Karma (#20542)
To:       *Chat (#5391), Quinn (#2), and *Gamemasters (#2560)
Subject:  Breaktime.

Since apparently I do absolutely nothing but try to work to my own ends and
gains, I'm taking a week-long break as of today. Now I will be sitting around
and doing nothing but scrabble.

Why?

Because it doesn't matter -what- I do, or how much work I am or am not doing.

If, as Red says, my absence from all GM-related affairs is something extremely
beneficial to the MOO, this will no doubt be proven within the next week.

Note: This is exactly why some people want to leave GW, idle, go elsewhere, or
attempt to create MOOs of their own. Some of us are just -that- sick of
nebulous accusations and pointless nonsense that takes us away from the work
that we do here -- and the things we can do for others, whether it is seen as
legitimate or not -- that no matter how much we love this place, we get
genuinely fed up.

-me.

--------------------------


Message 5743 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 14:31:19 1999 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Ok, To invoke some positive feed back I will attempt another route to this..

First off, the term valid discussion is approperate.. The players seem to
grasp this and some are rushing to defend the 'staff' which they do make their
points very well.. I am happy to see they do think and are showing their
opinions in force..   It does sadden me that the 'Staff' as usual build the
wall of definence up an say show me the proof!! Or they use pity on themselves
to say, we are guilty and terrible people, enough said..  Well.. Walls are not
safe things to hide behind.. I would appreciate positive input for I am
honestly not attempint a war of flames but a consental form where we could
work out these problems that do exsist.. I am of the opinion that it is
'Staff' responsible.. Beyond that I will listen to them if they will talk.

Hope that clears things up to the point where it is not called bashing..  Some
of the 'Staff' I do love dearly.. But in my position I can see they could need
a kick in the pants ever so often..

Red.

--------------------------


Message 5744 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 14:36:34 1999 EST
From:     Akeashar (#20348)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  re: last

Put your money where your mouth is Red--give us the evidence, give us the
facts, don't give us no broad speculation BS on how we are in error. It's
pretty whack man, that's all I gotta say.. pretty fucking whack.

Ake

--------------------------


Message 5745 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 15:09:17 1999 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Is _IS_ up to the players, it's not cliqueish.

I'm saying all this from the viewpoint of someone who spends more time on GW
than at least 90% of the rest of the moo, if not more.  While I have not been
involved in many classes, I think I see what Red's talking about and think
he's jumping to a serious conclusion.  I have done my utmost to befriend just
about everybody I come across at least OOCly, anybody who shows even the
slightest interest is offered a ride to Morlith by me.  I think I've made more
posts about guests to *dra than everyone else put together.  It's not the
class programmers' fault, in ANY class or area that they can't be around 24/7
to personally invite every single player to their class/area.  It takes a lot
of time and effort from concerned players too.  I devote a lot of time and
effort to introduce IC friends to the right people to set them up for the kind
of RP that they want.  In the case of Morlith, I wait to `ambush' the class
programmer when I know they're around with news of a new guest that I've
invited,  It's not the player's or the programmer's fault that they don't have
common online times.  It's not the player's or the programmer's fault that the
programmer can't be there to give the player the official `stamp' that
justifies their existence and I explain that to people before I put them in
such a situation.  I guess what I'm saying is that nobody's here 24/7, I try
to come close, I see a lot of what goes on around here.  I'll admit I don't
see what goes on behind closed doors and on private *lists, but I do know that
I trust the staff (old and new) implicitly.  Without them things would fall
apart, trust me as a 4 year LRPG veteran; when GM's stop paying attention or
start playing power games, the whole system suffers.  That has not happened
here yet.

--------------------------


Message 5746 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 15:47:45 1999 EST
From:     Kzin (#5800)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  sighs*

CHrist, people, pipe the hell down.
*rolls is eyes*
I gotta say this.The main 'player-generation' gap here is due to the fact that
your character -never- dies for good, unless you choose to kill s/he off.
Hell, I haven't even killed Kzin offthough Ive been staying OOC almost
completely for a few months.
As to the rest of all this arguing and shit:
I love the people on this MOO, I like alot of the ideas and such, but i have
to say it: Let Ghostwheel die happily, ok?
Just...c'mon. Please.
I still talk to people, and about all that I hear is spar-this, spar-that.
Quinn, if you read these posts, please consider a serious change to GW's
stat/skill system. THa, or make death a more...enduring..thing.

--------------------------


Message 5747 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 16:35:31 1999 EST
From:     Karma (#20542)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Since it's been a topic of discussion, and though I do admit it's a tad off
the dead-horse topic Red's tried to spell out for us...

WHY I GO ELSEM*
by Spiral/Karma/etc.

Once upon a time, I came to M* to play. Play, you know. That fun stuff you do
when you don't have any responsibility to the game but to enjoy it. I really
did enjoy that.
     Hence, part of the reason I went elseM*: To just be a player and not have
to worry about anything beyond my character, and the fun I'm having with
people around me. To blow off steam and unwind -- just like the players who
come here do.

Politics are really draining. They're boring, really. Despite popular opinion,
I simply don't like them. Why? Because I do generally consider most of the
people here to be my friends. I'm sick of being stuck in the middle of
disputes that I can clearly see both sides of. Many times both sides of an
argument have some valid points, and therefore never get resolved.
     Another reason I go elseM*: I don't know as many people, so I'm not going
to be involved in as many political issues.

For better or worse, almost everyone knows me here. It may mean to some that
any character I play gets preferential treatment, or to others that they
-must- have set stats or special toys since I'm a GM here, or that since that
person can't stand me, that my character will be killed for personal grudges.
     Another reason I go ElseM*: I can be appropriately anonymous.

We can't think of everything. We all may be brilliant, and dedicated to making
this place work like a well-oiled machine, but as a teacher once told me: Bad
artists copy. Good artists Steal.
     Another reason to go ElseM*: They sometimes have good ideas that can be
brought back here to improve -this- MOO.

Twinks suck. (Pretty self-explanatory.)
There are many people here that only come here to cause problems. Example:
Cronus (or `the_beat_down_express' or whatever he's calling himself these
days...) I personally don't enjoy watching them insult me -or- anyone else.
They kill people for OOC reasons, use strange names or behavior (like the `Can
of whoop-ass') that detract from the game for everyone. Wheefun.
     Another reason I go ElseM*: To get away from the morons who think this is
a forum to insult and hurt people. Yes, they exist on other M*s, though I have
not encountered them on such a grand scale elsewhere. Also, they're generally
toaded or nuked when deemed a general menace.

I prefer RP to combat. I prefer extensive RP to minimal RP. That's my
preference, and you have no business judging me based on what I like.
Example:

Down the through the docks the sound of clinking music wafts. The
jingle-jangle of clinking chains and the rough thump of bootheels. On wood, it
is the sound of a hammer sealing a coffin; on the concrete, it is the sound of
a maul at the forge. His step is steady, even and never faltering, as he walks
his way to the man by the pole.
     "Good evening," he says in a narrow whisper, allowing his eyes one
cursory glance around.
The pale woman remains a few steps behind the Lieutenant, eyes quickly taking
in the details of the area, dismissing them with equal speed. Somewhere
between the tube station and where she now stands; a small notebook has found
its way into her hand, and a mechanical pencil twirls between her fingertips
with restless clicks as it rolls over her knuckles.
The source lights a cigarette with a plastic lighter turned up way too high.
He places the lighter in his hip pocket and spends a moment in speculation,
then speaks: "So...."

..or...

Bob walks into the lounge. "Hi. Does anyone want to spar?"

No, that isn't all the RP that goes on here -- nor am I in _any_ way trying to
say that it is. I see it enough, however, that it gets on MY nerves. So for
-my- fun, I choose to RP and unwind elsewhere at times. That's my choice, and
you're pretty goddamned arrogant if you tell me that because I have a bit here
it's wrong for me to enjoy being elsewhere as well.
     Another reason I go ElseM*: Because at times, this MOO does not provide
the setting or characters that I choose to interact with. That's my choice --
the same kind of choice as choosing the movie to watch: action film, or period
drama? MY CHOICE. MY ENTERTAINMENT.

That's just a few reasons.

WHY I STAY ON GHOSTWHEEL
by Spiral/Karma/Dee

It's simple: I care about this place. I try to do what I can to make it better
for everyone, and like to find solutions to the problems that arise rather
than scream and toss veiled accusations around. This isn't my personal
playground, nor would it be the kind of playground I would create for myself.

WHY I'M MAKING MY OWN MOO
by Spiral/Karma/Dee

1. I don't like sparring, or the emphasis on combat.
2. I came up with a theme that's different from any site I could currently
join to play on, and it's a theme that I think is original, and that people
would enjoy.
3. I'd like a place where people are rewarded for role-play and not repetitive
action.
4. I'd like to be able to keep people like Cronus from interfering with the
enjoyment others have with the game.

..and again, that's just a few reasons.

-me.

--------------------------


Message 5748 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 16:39:21 1999 EST
From:     Rand (#9865)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Favoritism....blah...


I'll prolly get flamed back for this, as i'm a lowly NPC and have all these
lovely toys just given to me alla time *snort* Thats a laugh...but i'm going
to post this any way...

Red, YOU were once a GM here, and left because people disagreed with
you....You whinned and what not, then left...

Also, seeing as we are talking about Favoritism...it seems to me that _YOU_
get quite a bit of it, so if I were you, I wouldn't say anything...K?

Me.
(Pot, Kettle, Black)

--------------------------


Message 5749 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 16:41:57 1999 EST
From:     Sterno (#21938)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Hrm

*checks calendar*

I thought the monthly flame war on *chat wasn't for another week. I'm always
out of the loop.

--------------------------


Message 5750 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 16:42:36 1999 EST
From:     Rand (#9865)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  ....


Also forgot another part of that post...

I mean, seeing how the GMs dont' do anything except for personal gain...What
was your excuse, Red?  Also, I'm wondering, suddenly, why it is that you never
finished your area...I mean, if you were such a good GM and what not? Hell,
you sat around most of the time, doing things _RARELY_...and when you _DID_
build something, you left hit half done.

Rand

(Glass houses, stones...)

--------------------------


Message 5751 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 16:43:38 1999 EST
From:     Karma (#20542)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Re: Sterno

It got rescheduled so it wouldn't coincide with `that time of the month' or
PMS week for me. *titter* Girl problems and tempers, dontcha know.

--------------------------


Message 5752 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 17:29:09 1999 EST
From:     Clayson (#17237)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  re: some of the posted.

I was going to stay out of this, cause personally, after the whole Complex
affair, I don't give a rats ass any longer. But it really bothers me when one
person posts a complaint, or their opinion and they get flamed from hell and
back. Red is allowed to comment on anything he damn well pleases. I don't
recall him pointing fingers to any single GM, but mainly making a gripe about
the way the system is run now.

Perhaps if you spent more time reading his post instead of dissecting it and
assuming every word he writes pertains to you personally. You might have the
understanding at that point to ask him, "Red..seems you have a problem here.
Any suggestions?" This just might be a better approach.

For Christ sakes, start listening to the players and their complaints. They
too play else where, build their own moos and perhaps even *gasps* are wiz's
else m*. Their ideas and complaints are just as valid.

--------------------------


Message 5753 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 17:38:47 1999 EST
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

I think the point is, his questions were not simply an attempt to solicit
friendly debate. They were purposefully inflammatory, and meant to get people
angry.

--------------------------


Message 5754 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 19:09:44 1999 EST
From:     Janus (#3597)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

For all the whiners and all the hateful people (and the people in both
categories) who post to this list, check
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/bomb/sfeature/mapablast.html and get some
stress out. Then go out breath fresh air and get laid.

--------------------------


Message 5755 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 19:17:17 1999 EST
From:     Janus (#3597)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  re: Staff

Quit whining. If you don't like the staff, or how the game work, or how this
MOO is run by Quinn, then leave. Go away. Make your own or go to another one.
BUT QUIT WHINING.
That statement apply to the staff as well as players. This espcially apply to
ex-staff-who-keeps-whining, like Mr. Red.
Thank you and have a nice day.

--------------------------


Message 5756 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 19:42:37 1999 EST
From:     Eponine (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Complex affair?  I'm curious to know the exact nature of this, complex affair.

I created an area, the area's original intentions ended up being changed for
what I thought was a good twist.  I thought I explained this repeatedly in
posts made here to *Chat.

I would reply to Red, but as I'm well aware, it's impossible to change his
opinions once he's made up his mind.  I can only say that he is wrong in his
reasoning, if he wishes to know more, he can ask, but quite frankly this
entire argument reminds me of wrestling with a pig in mud.  You get all dirty
and the pig likes it.  Everyone, just let it go and have a little fun.  This
isn't worth getting your blood pressure up over.

--------------------------


Message 5757 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 20:36:41 1999 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  *GRINS*

I almost laugh reading some of the posts by the 'Staff'.. They fail to do
anything but defend with name calling and personal defences..

Rathe said it best and he is right when he said I was taking a harsh view and
he compared it to one that would go down into a Klan rally trying to convence
them of their  wrongs.. You'd end up dead..
Kiva, thought that I've got some wrong conclusions.. That may be right as
well..  And I do admit that I'm taking the extream view on this my OPINION...
So where does this leave us?
Rand, you are right.. You shouldn't open your mouth.. So I won't go farther
than that..
Karma dearest, I wish you wouldn't take things so personally but then you
always have.. I'd suspect it might be a little sister complex..
I know, nothing in my posts have flamed directly at any one person today.. I
also know that what I have said has not been that damaging to anyone either
unless it actually did hit the spot so closely..

So saying that I know that by taking this OPINION, I have ennobled myself
farther than I should.. But then if some people in the world never did this
sort of thing, I think that many wrongs in the world would never be changed or
challanged..  Wrong or not.. To speak out is a right..
So we still have yet to honestly hear from the 'staff'.. But I think the
players have given me some very interesting things to think on..

Thanks..

Rob..

--------------------------


Message 5758 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 20:39:03 1999 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Most of the `old' staff isn't on on the weekends.

--------------------------


Message 5759 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 20:39:40 1999 EST
From:     Eponine (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Red, all you're doing really, with your opinion, is to hurt, slander,
insinuate and upset the player base as well as the staff.  Now, if that's your
intention, then you've accomplished it well.  If you're really attempting to
make a positive change, there are better ways to do it rather then force your
opinions and conspiracy theories on everyone.

--------------------------


Message 5760 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 20:41:54 1999 EST
From:     Rand (#9865)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Red, a man of simple words...


I'm still waiting on your responce to my last post, the one about you not
finishing anything...You know, the super GM that you were and all..

SirPissedAlot

--------------------------


Message 5762 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 20:52:31 1999 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Twinks do not suck. They do not swallow.
That is much worse than sucking.
You regret the error.

--------------------------


Message 5763 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 21:15:22 1999 EST
From:     Skywalker (#6644)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Children, children, children....

Have we not learned _anything_?  I've been here for more than 3 years now
(yay, good for me) and I've seen more flame wars than I care to.  There even
used to be a list named especially for flames, but that was scrapped for
obvious reasons.  So what's that mean?  It means they have no place on this
MOO, at least not on the public lists.  So if you see a post written late at
night (or early in the morning) by someone who obviously has issues that go
far deeper than anything concerning the MOO (and it would be nice if
everyone knew that), just ignore it.  If your kid's throwing a temper tantrum,
do you sit the child down and start yelling or do you let the thing run its
course?  The bottom line is that if you're only posting here to blow off some
RL steam, then you shouldn't be posting.  If you're just going to be giving
wide, sweeping accusations without any proof (the boy who cried wolf should've
been ripped apart the first time around in my opinion), then you shouldn't be
complaining.  If you're going to respond to a post like that without taking
a half hour to calm down and let the emotions sort themselves out, then you
shouldn't be replying.  If you're going to answer a childish post with equally
childish responses, you shouldn't answering.  See, it means more to not bother
giving a reply than it does to pour your heart out about how hurt you are or
how angry it makes you.  Those of you who posted something totally unrelated
and funny, or the ones who said they weren't going to get involved and didn't,
and especially the ones who made a response to my post (the one that actually
talks about a current issue that may be important depending on your opinion
and isn't worded to provoke a violent response)--all of you, I applaud.  The
rest of you, can we please stop this before it spreads?  Things have been
quiet for the past little while and it'd be nice if it could stay that way.
I'm not asking for public apologies, hugs, or I-told-you-so's, just an end to
all of the flame and semi-flaming posts.  Fair 'nuff?

--Sky

--------------------------


Message 5764 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 21:16:23 1999 EST
From:     Eponine (#3791)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Death.

You know, death, in and of itself, isn't really the worst part of life.
Dying, that is.

I talked to my mother recently, and it seems my grandmother's dementia has
increased.  She called my Aunt at home and told her she was at the church and
to come and get her because everyone was leaving.  My grandmother was at the
local Nursing Home, of course, and when my Aunt tried to bring her around, she
got very angry and aggitated.  My aunt takes care of my grandfather 24/7, and
was unable to leave him to go to the nursing home to check on her.
Remembering my grandmother for the woman she was, hot headed, stubborn, yet
every bit the noble hostess for any guest in her house, it makes me nearly
burst into tears every time I hear that story replayed in my mind.

My grandfather is doing much better, on the positive side.  His hip and leg
are healing nicely, and he keeps talking about walking again without his
wheelchair.  Silently, the family is well aware that he may never actually
walk again.  But, we don't have the heart to tell him that and steal that
dream from him, it's one of the few things he has left to believe, to cling
to.  His heart disease is a concern, but as far as we know, it has not
deteriorated yet.  I saw him this Christmas after so many months in the
hospital.  It was good to see him lucid and smiling, without the hospital
gurney and tubes and machinery around him.  He was so thin though, very very
brittle looking.  So changed from the huge grandfather I remember from my
childhood, with the strong hands that helped me up when I fell on my knees in
the backyard.

It hurts so damn much to watch them die.  To see them suffer.  I almost wish
that death would come swiftly, and take them both at once, so they can both be
together in the afterlife.    I honestly have never seen too people so in
love, so dedicated to each other, it would be cruel to ever seperate them.

--------------------------


Message 5765 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 21:23:33 1999 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Eppy and Rand

Reasons being for my resigning back a year ago where quite simple at that
time.  The same things that go on today with the 'Staff'...  Also a great deal
of mistakes by myself included..  To 'resign' as I did I only harmed myself
but then I am greatful that I did what I did at that time for personal
reasons.  Nothing got finished only because the 'Staff' who where given the
responsiblity after I was gone did not wish to continue with it I suppose.

And my dear Rand, ic child of a sexual relationship between two people who had
exceedingly passionate evenings in the tower of Red's Keep..  You are a
production of stats and character invented for your wifes pleasure and
control.. You are not a plot device or a interesting character.. You've taken
what was Moonheart's strength and Red's ego and attituded and turned yourself
into a bully and tool for your wifes individual play..  You in yourself are a
cheat..  I do know that only after you and I tested our stats one evening a
few months ago and I was able to hit you it was reported to a gm list which I
won't repeat that Eppy had to raise your stats to fall into game fairness and
continue your validity.. These are things that I know..

There, this is the first post I have done at pointing fingers.. But Children
sometimes need to be dealt with.

Red.

--------------------------


Message 5766 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 22:21:03 1999 EST
From:     Janus (#3597)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Why don't you guys just ignore Red's rants? rather than reply 3721721 pages to
his stuff... trust me it would improve your stress level. Here is the
technique: when you do @nn and your screen is filled with stuff and you see it
signed Red or Rob, skip, if it;s signed -me that's Karma, you can probably
skip that too. No need to thank me, really.

--------------------------


Message 5767 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Sun Jan 10 23:06:33 1999 EST
From:     Sinner (#12411)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Um. This argument stops dead with the mentality 'If you don't like it here, go
somewhere else.' From things I've seen, heard, and experienced elseMU** --
this is nothing, if it is the truth, your lucky it's that simple. This is all
I gotta say. :)

--------------------------


Message 5768 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 00:03:57 1999 EST
From:     Karma (#20542)
To:       Quinn (#2), *Chat (#5391), and *Gamemasters (#2560)
Subject:  For my sanity...

..I think I'm going to extend my week off from staff to a week completely
away from GW. My nerves are getting thin, and my temper is very close to the
surface.

People seem to be enjoying this by trying to deliberately antagonize me, and
so, for this reason, it is no doubt best I just head out for a while and get
away from it.

-me.

--------------------------


Message 5769 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 01:49:46 1999 EST
From:     Ylaerin (#16541)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  All This Mess

At first, I wasn't going to say anything. Not that this isn't a nice thing to
come 'home' to after nearly 3 weeks away. I was warned that I would be upset
by the messages on *chat -- I responded (perhaps over-confidently) that it
takes a lot to work me up these days.  I just found out, to my surprise, how
true that actually is.  I've been through MUCH worse than this latest flame
spat around these here parts, and I've had such a fabulous day. So I'm not
angry, not even really all that terribly bitter... but I am a bit sorry, and
(being the me that some of you are quite familiar with) I find it hard to keep
my mouth shut. So .. if you don't want to read this, and you want to change
the topic, here's your big chance to move on to other things.

Ok. First off... the first thing that made me feel like throwing down my two
bits was Clayson's comment that maybe if we all took the time to read Red's
posts, and not to dissect them, we'd see the light (or something to that
effect). I'm just going to point out the flaw in the logic -- wouldn't a
person have to be reading -more- carefully in order to respond with the kind
of clarity that many of the responses have shown? Think about it, won't you?
Secondly: I am likely to be one of those people who will be called a 'GM's
pet' or something equally silly, seeing as I hold several of the staff very
very dear and that's pretty widely known, and it's true that part of the
reason I'm posting now is because I can't sit idly by while my friends are
hurting, and this is my way of showing my support and care.  But, you'll take
care to notice that my char(s) have nothing in the way of special toys or
anything of the kind, and that my own idea for RP/organizations has yet to get
off the ground, which is nobody's fault really (except maybe my own). The
charges of favoritism, I think, are deeply unfounded. I agree with the call
for specific instances... and I understand, Red, that this is your opinion,
but most opinions which are publicly voiced (and which request/demand
responses or dialogue, such as your own) are generally founded on fact and
don't hide from them. You say you don't want to name names, which I guess is
kind of noble in an odd way, but clearly (as public opinion indicates) that
strategy is more of a hiding maneuver steeped in the desire to make sweeping
generalizations than any real desire to 'help' the MOO or the players. You did
point at Rand as evidence, but that was a pretty thin argument which seemed
mostly centered on how much you didn't like Rand ICly because he's a jerk.
Melira (my alt) happens to be a loudmouth and kind of a bitch, but I guess
since she respects Frap ICly and doesn't have any kinds of badass sword
abilites, she's ok. This attitude is, in a way, favoritism.
Finally:  Every time I hear someone say that this MOO is dying, it not only
hurts me, it makes me fight back. Now, I've been told this by people who I
considerd to be poor players, selfish people whose storylines weren't working
out for them because other players were extering their own wills and wishes --
and I've been told this by some of my best friends, who care about the MOO,
and who could have RP with me just for the asking (provided I'm not running
someplace ;)). I disagree with both of them, though I clearly prefer the
latter over the former.  I don't really have any evidence for that claim,
except for the fact that I continue to enjoy my time here - IC or OOC - and
that in playing Ylaerin I have found some of the best creative seeds of my
life, and I will continue to do so until I've sucked RP opportunity dry here.
Selfish? Maybe. But you know what? That means that there's at least one person
here devoted to real, genuine RP, outside the realm of stats and toys. So,
since I think I'm going to have tsome free time for a while, and if you see me
out & about (which is likely) as either Ylaerin or Melira, go IC and quit yer
whinin'. ;)

-Jess

--------------------------


Message 5770 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 08:00:01 1999 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

I have been thinking how to word this, like I said before I know I like the
tact and grace that some do in their words, but bluntness seems to be best at
times.

Why did I even start this argument or as hoped discussion?

Because, when I say I love GW I mean that with all my heart..  It is a place I
can or could escape the real world that is about me.  Where I could play a
character that is not myself but still not to much unlike myself..  This is
the only moo I visit besides one social moo where there is a  friend I'd never
see if I didn't check in ever so often.. But then, I am not very social as you
probably know.

I've admitted that in my postings I could be wrong, maybe not in my thinking
but in my wording or conclusions.. But people seem to skip that part and go
for the throat.. I said this isn't about favoritism or stats, yet that still
seems to be a on going theme..  Some people have taken it to heart that I am
directly talking about them.. Not so..

Karma, If I was to guess at your part in anything I'd say you where as off to
the side of things as any of the 'Staff'.. You are colorful and descriptive
and your characters and building shows this.  But as far as that, you are
invisible to me in these matters.. You have a great deal of loyalty though and
even though you say "I hate politics" You are often the first to speak out in
matters that are raised.. But you take things too personally drawing attention
to yourself and away from the subject.. So no, I do not think you have
contributed much to this problem and your words haven't added much to the
discussion..  I only wonder if your week off as you put it will be true to
you.  Hope it helps.

Back to the why.
In the years I've been on GW, I have gone through some changes personally.
Escapism became a big part of that.  When first coming to GW I was as much a
twink in the definition as 'Darkhawk'.. In fact he was as much a part of who
Red became as anyone.  If it wasn't for Lykaj in real life.. I think you'd of
all run Red off just as 'Darkhawk' was...

Lykaj taught me how to play here I think more than anyone.. He showed me what
I was doing wrong and I tried to correct that.. Though I still had problems.

And now for a revelation..

I sit here thinking why?? It hits to the heart.. I do believe it is out right
jealousy that drives me this way.. When I say I miss the old GW, it isn't the
'Staff' but the lack of myself who is in control..  What made GW great for me
was that I came here and I had friends to play with.. Not that I don't have
friends here.. I mean it in a way that I had a partnership.. So lets blame
this all on Moonheart for leaving me stranded.. Lykaj for not being around to
pick on all the time.. Yeah, they are my real life best friends and I draw
much strength from them.. Red's story centered around them and without them he
wanders and has to deal with strangers and that scares him/me..

I could also say the why is from my real life problems.. Mom's time is short
on this world and the cancer is causing her to suffer now.. Friday we where
told it was from 2 weeks to several months.. But her pain is great and already
in a week she has lost much of herself.  I have been overwhelmed by that and
my attention to her is full.. So when I logged onto GW the other day I was
looking for distraction of that pain.  I also myself am on medication for the
crohn's which makes me crazy and emotional.. Steriods suck.. Talk about PMS..
Men where never ment to handle it.. I am bloated and feel terrible...

But that aside, the argument that stands is true.  I believe that in the old
days, the staff had freedom to create situations that a character could walk
into and the rp would flow from them..  Red's silly attempts at fighting
Morlith, always ending in his brains being show to be small blood stains on
the wall of the R/T lounge.. That was fun..  Of course Kynwal and Stalinger
showing up scared the piss out of Red.. Made him see his ways so to speak..
And yet, they treated me/Red with respect and caused the experience to be
greater than it really was.

I just don't see that anymore..

So what am I saying?

Who the hell knows... Haven't you learned by now that I'm who I am?  I admit I
don't like some of the Staff.. Least one of them.. oocly or icly.. Some I hold
dearly to my heart.. It frustrates me to no end that Heretic does nothing
unless the mood strikes him to  agravate the other 'staff'  I can even see
that.. I miss him walking with me and talking to me.. Moonheart and Red where
one.. I guess that is my fault though.. SO even there my best friend is
included in my ranting...

In finishing this, cause I am out spamming Karma these days.. *smiles*
GW is the best place in the world.
I'll be quiet now because today I think I've said to much.. To let this go out
and mix with you all and become what it will..

R.

--------------------------


Message 5771 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 09:23:59 1999 EST
From:     Tirafal (#24173)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

I just got home from work and waded through 38 posts. I have some questions.
What does Clayson mean by "the whole Complex affair"? I guess I'm interested
because my character is a resident of the Complex and I've busted my butt to
bring other people into the storyline that surrounds the area. Is there
something wrong with the Complex that I'm not aware of?
Why does Red continually say that Rand is a puppet of "his wife's"? I live
with these people and I can guarantee that Rand RP's his NPC without any
interfence from Eppy that I've ever seen. Yes, he is involved ICly now with a
character of hers, but I also happen to be ICly involved with a character of
my husband's and I can guarantee you he does NOT control the RP between them.
I've seen a lot of mudslinging and accusations on the list and it distresses
me because I happen to like this place and have put a lot of time and effort
into developing the characters I have here.
Last (and least) I have only one personal bitch with the GM's and it doesn't
even really apply to all of them.
It's my opinion that any GM that runs a class should NEVER be permitted to
spend 24/7 @hidden. I know of several GM's that run classes that do this.
These people are supposedly here to help the players of their class yet if
they continually hide from those players they are creating an aura of mistrust
between themselves and those of the class they supposedly run.
On top of that, they aren't exactly doing anything to help develop their class
and make it viable. My advice: make yourselves visible....recruit people into
your class...give them a sense of security and direction (WITHOUT running
their RP lives). This MOO would have a lot more activity and be a helluva lot
more viable.

--------------------------


Message 5772 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 11:15:00 1999 EST
From:     Quinn (#2)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  skills

The "Melee thing" is simply the side-effect of adding another tier of skills.
Each skill defines a number of potential to be dispersed in the event it
improves.  At improvement, that potential trickles down to all of its parent
skills.

It's only last week that we've had a "fourth tier" of skills, as illustrated
below.

Melee->Armed->Bladed->Trident

This is as finely grained as I see GW "specialization" going.  Skywalker (as
usual) has a good point; the current pot dispersement system does indeed show
flaws at this "depth."

Perhaps, instead of a hard point dispersement, each skill defines a "trickle
chance" which is halved down each tier.  So, if Trident had a 80% trickle
chance, Bladed has a 75% chance of boosting when it did.  Armed then has a 40%
chance, and finally Melee has a 20% chance.  All boosts would be for a single
point.

That sound any better?

--------------------------


Message 5773 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 12:29:02 1999 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  re: 5766

Or the @refuse flames from person code could be brought over here so people
can ignore posts unless they intentionally read those posts.

--------------------------


Message 5774 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 13:20:48 1999 EST
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Re: skills

Well, then what smart people would do is either A: avoid tridents like the
plague, or B) stick with a broadsword (straight bladed, higher chance of
melee/armed boost) untill they were a ways over average, then spar up trident
for a few extra bladed/armed/melee boosts.
Ra ra ubernewbie

--------------------------


Message 5775 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 13:22:11 1999 EST
From:     Lykaj (#6068)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Mr. Fang. Please do not blame me for your psycotic behavior.  I was around
only to give ya a good smack to the head when deserved.  I've been slack on
smacking duties as of late it seems.  I'll make up for it later.

Sheesh folks..chill out. Relax..get laid.  If you cannot get laid? Masturbate.
Frequently.

On a side note.  I finally have the webpage up for the cafe I now run.  Any of
you in the philly area please stop on by.  Or hell..a road trip for a good
Mocha is well worth the trip.  www.netaxs.com/~huff/gryphon

--------------------------


Message 5776 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 15:01:44 1999 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Mister Lykaj, it is your fault!! You know the guys in the white suits told you
to keep me restrained and to smack me ever so often.. But you went away and I
escaped!! HAHA!!!

--------------------------


Message 5777 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 19:44:28 1999 EST
From:     Tarla (#18104)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Damn....

Man I am glad that I haven't had much time to log in lately and thusly missed
this whole nasty thing.  Woulda only made my recent perpetual borderline
migraine that much worse.  Somebody remind me to call the doctor about that
please?

Anywho... Quinn dear, I think the trickle down pecentages sound like a dandy
idea.  Neatly solves the problem without defeating the initial purpose.

Happy happy joy joy... everybody kiss and make up now please... oh... and
another thing... I heartily apporve of the concept of adding posts to *lists
to the things that @gag scans.

Denise... aka Tarla the psycho-pyro-man-hater et al. ;)

--------------------------


Message 5778 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 21:49:24 1999 EST
From:     Skywalker (#6644)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Trickle down

The idea sounded great on first reading...but I think Rathe already pointed
out the fatal flaw.
I'm sure it could be modified though.

--------------------------


Message 5779 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 22:47:13 1999 EST
From:     Rathe (#14172)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Hey Quinn, be a pal and make it so channels can't be used in Tarterus?

--------------------------


Message 5780 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Mon Jan 11 22:47:57 1999 EST
From:     Bishamon (#23011)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Better yet

Make it so that GMs can boot spammers from chat. :P

--------------------------


Message 5781 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 11:11:06 1999 EST
From:     Tarla (#18104)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Since I cant send to *db for some ungodly reason....

Dunno if anyone is actually LISTENING to my opinion... but I'm gonna give it
anyway :)

The elimination of bladed and subsequent introduction of sword, axe, and knife
sounds good to me... provided of course that some provision is made for
transfering existing points in bladed over to the skill appropriate for the
character.  Not sure how it would be accomplished... likely wouldn't be a
point for point exchange, but it seems to me that there should be some
allowance made for the people who have put the time and effort into getting
thier skills to a certain level.

For instance... I'd hate to see Kiva suddenly unable to USE the knife he's
been wielding so effectively for so long.

I dunno... am I making any sense at all?

--------------------------


Message 5782 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 11:39:41 1999 EST
From:     Quinn (#2)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  new bladed tier

Good point, Tarla.  Perhaps we could keep 25% in the main bladed and
distribute the rest evenly throughout the new subskills.  I dunno.  Comments?

Oh, and you can't post to *db because it's _only_ for announcements, not
discussion.  Keeps the traffic down.

--------------------------


Message 5783 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 13:16:15 1999 EST
From:     Dante (#10660)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Appropriately...

Blunt becomes staff, hammer, and say crowbar? We can't do one thing to bladed,
and not to blunt. However I still think that splitting up the points of them
will do very much, armed and melee are more the backbone of stats. Anyway
rather then complain I don't mind the splitting up, but I don't think the
'splitting' up of the points will do very much with both armed and melee still
high as they are.

--------------------------


Message 5784 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 13:21:30 1999 EST
From:     Sterno (#21938)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Stats

Won't those of us who already have 200+ melee have an ENORMOUS advantage,
since it seems under the new system that 200 melee is something that someone
might not even reach if they had 1000's across the board?

--------------------------


Message 5785 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 13:26:32 1999 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  new tiers.

Would brawl also be broken up into different forms?  Say, martial arts,
wrestling, open hand, yadda yadda yadda?  It would involve a way to invoke the
different styles, of course and new messages and so on....

--------------------------


Message 5786 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 13:27:00 1999 EST
From:     Quix (#19923)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  the new tier

I don't want to bring confusion to those of you who DO know what's going on,
but i'd like to know.  If we are going to be splitting bladed up into all of
it's different parts then why not split blunt up too?  I don't see the need to
do it. If we want to get technical.. just what is the difference between sword
and Dagger that's not between Quarterstaff and Crowbar?
I do understand that the Ranged weapons had to be split up because they _are_
different motions and different muscles needed to be good at them.  But with
all the bladed weapons it's the same thing, slash, pierce,slash,slash, pierce
and maybe a reverse slash as part of a autoresponse 2nd attack
If we Need to split bladed up then maybe try, single edged and doubled edged,
slash weapons and peirce weapons and so on.
I guess I'm saying that if we break bladed up and start tranfering points
around, it seems to me that it will cause alot more trouble than it is worth.
Quix

--------------------------


Message 5787 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 13:27:44 1999 EST
From:     Dante (#10660)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Bonus.

100 is way to random I think, something a bit higher would be nice. Is it
physically possible to make it so that half the plus is random, and the other
half is not? This allows it to be some what more realistic, so that someone
who just broke average destroys slayer.

--------------------------


Message 5788 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 13:30:43 1999 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  To clarify what was just posted...

>From talking with Quinn on [Public] it's been learned that the guaranteed
minimum bonus as of a few hours ago was 100, with the rest being random up to
the max of a player's skills.  This allows for some really cool freaks of
nature to occur and keep everyone from being `immortal'.
,

--------------------------


Message 5789 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 13:41:54 1999 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Back to what Tarla was saying...  (What a doll, isn't she?)

Thanks for mentioning me.  What I'm gonna say is along the same vein...  There
are characters who have been faithful to one particular fighting style or
routine since they began, Johnny being a good example as Tarla mentioned.
Despite having the oppurtunity to `move up' to other stuff that would have
used the same skill at the time, Johnny, by choice, hasn't learned any other
styles than playing with knives.  Call it a whine if you want, but I don't
think it would be right to give him skills he shouldn't have and take away
from his current expertise.  There are others who would need that, yes.

--------------------------


Message 5790 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 13:47:52 1999 EST
From:     Quinn (#2)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  max bonii

It was applying a hard (static) bonus of 80%, with a soft (random) remainder.
I kinda like the idea of an arbitrary 100 max, since it basically means you
can do anything `normal' almost all the time, but success of extraordinary
tasks won't be so certain.

I'm open to adjusting it, of course.  Especially if combat becomes entirely
too random.

--------------------------


Message 5791 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 13:50:16 1999 EST
From:     Dante (#10660)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  My idea.

Balance of stats is important, what the one I had was to split up
melee/armed/bladed/blunt divided by 3. All of these stats will be, not just
bladed. and whatever bladed comes out to be divided by three, will be
dispursed into the new skills, same with blunt. So examples, my melee is 278,
divided by 3 is about 92. Armed is 585 divided by 3 is about 195. My bladed is
also 750, easy number, 250 bladed, 250 sword, 250 knife, and 250 axe. I
realize this requires alot of loss, and I'd also suggest the '3' limit not to
lower more then average. So that it's somewhat fair, from there on in I
personally think the game would be alot better also. Oh and again with the 50%
bonus being permanent, and another 50% being variable.

--------------------------


Message 5792 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 17:56:49 1999 EST
From:     Dante (#10660)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Variable stats

I think it's fine how bladed and other combat stats vary, but focus, and
shock, especially focus for mage battles NEEDS to stay raw code. It's the
difference between a Adept succeeding and a failure where the Adept goes
unconcious against a regular human. Not after battle mind you, Kzin amd I were
practicing, and he dropped out right after the second spell, I was even able
to cast on him, so therefore the obvious need. Shock's the same way, it keeps
someone alive and concious it would suck to have that discounted in the same
manner. Whats everyone elses thoughts? ( Electech also, but you can wait a
couple tries for it to enter people in bioscanners )

--------------------------


Message 5793 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 20:06:35 1999 EST
From:     Yalindra (#13170)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Recent changes

All I can say is "Oy." But, first, I'd like to say how pleased I am that
people are attempting to do something about the stagnation etc. that's
recently set into Ghostwheel. It's nice to see things being retooled, etc.
The thing I don't like - the proposed division of bladed and blunt or
whatever into more subskills. I, personally, don't see the need for it.
Spears used to be the only anomalouse Bladed weapon that wasn't of the
straight hack-and-slash variety, but they've not gotten a skill of their
own (whichh, since I'm up to bat here will say should be moved to Trident
because the parent skill for Javelin/Spear is Throwing and as far as I
know, the spears of GW are not thrown weapons. If there exist the throwing
variety, they should be converted to Javelin/Spear, and the rest
to Trident - spears are just tridents minus a few progs, right? Well,
maybe not, but it would make more sense than leaving it part of the
Throwing tree.) I don't profess to have ever participated in a real life
melee, but I would imagine that IN BASICS, swinging a sword, swinging
an axe, swinging/thrusting with a knife and rapier are all the same
action. True, the weapons might have different characteristics, but
this is/should be reflected in their stats. i.e. Axes are slow but
do lots of damage, daggers are faster but do less, and so on. With the
exception of the concept of weight, I could pick up a metal bar and
pretend with the powers of my imagination it was an axe or a broadsword -
the swinging motion is the same. Do we REALLY need a skill for each
separate "type" of weapon? If you want to go that far, just make one
for each weapon ever created because the fencing style I imagine one
would use with a rapier is not the same as the "style" with which you
would wield a broadsword.
Now, I would almost agree with my last statement except for one simple
fact that I would like people to keep in consideration while forming
their notions/ideas on the proposed changes. Adding skills to the tree
hurts players who currently have stats, especially high ones. If
your character's history has them fighting with a spear, and from day
one you sparred and sparred and accumulated higher than average bladed,
as well as found yourself a spear, you create an aspect of your character.
Now, insert the changes: your higher than average bladed is relatively
useless now that your spear uses the Spear skill, which starts off at
0. Sure, your atts and your melee adds to its starting plus, but it's
almost like your character lost their gained aptitude with a weapon
overnight. The situation becomes similar to the institution of Melee.
Players who were created and accumulated stats while Melee did (as far
as we could tell, nothing) and was unboostable save by pot points,
were at a serious disadvantage when Melee became "unfrozen."
It turns out that high melee conferred an advantage in combat. So,
the change penalized the older players who didn't want to reroll and
spend all that time sparring again to have a Melee appropriate for their
Bladed/Blunt/Brawl, and instead rewarded the uncreated or unsparred
player. Now it'll be happening again, especially with a fixed +100
bonus or something which, admittedly, I don't completely understand.
In part, I see it as a good idea because you have a chance to hit/connect
with someone even if your stats don't exactly beat the other's by
leaps and bounds. But also, I see it as reducing stats that people have
worked hard on for nothing by making them less certain. I realize that
a melee isn't exactly a fixed event where the guy with the greatest
skill always comes out on top - sure, the underdog has his day, but
should this underdog have the same chance of scoring a lucky hit on
John Q. Enemy as on a Blademaster of many years? I'd like to think not.
Certainly, even a revered Blademaster can screw up, fall for a feint, trip, or
just basically not be having a good day. But what would such a mistake,
hopefully rare, cost them against someone grossly underskilled? Depending on
the skill of the Blademaster, hopefully little, while against a more Veteran
opponent, the mistake might be fatal.
Once again, I'm glad that things are moving, but I'm not entirely certain
I like the direction they are headed.

--------------------------


Message 5794 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 21:03:47 1999 EST
From:     Dante (#10660)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Medic too.

Medic shouldn't be random bonus either.

--------------------------


Message 5795 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 21:06:42 1999 EST
From:     Ymerith (#22840)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Yeah, I guess so.

I'm with Dante.  Shock and medic aren't physical contests against a person,
but against a body's wellness.  Not having played a mage I can't say about
focus, I see his point, but I also see it just like melee or bladed.  I'll
believe him.

--------------------------


Message 5796 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 21:42:01 1999 EST
From:     Skywalker (#6644)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  stat changes

While everyone's deciding on what they want to happen, someone should consider
what the changes will mean to NPC's as well as PC's.  As it currently stands,
all of the critts that run around on the GhostWheel, the bayou, the undersea,
and any other area that has them are a lot tougher than before.  I haven't
been out testing (for fear of being randomly killed by something silly like a
glim), but I did notice a change in the drazzliks undersea.  It's not a good
example I know because 99% of the MOO doesn't know what they are, but it will
suffice to say that before the most recent change (the one that took effect
today or last night or whatever), I dodged drazzliks easily and could parry
with a rapier if it was necessary.  But today, only after about 15 rounds, I
got hit twice in the chest while wielding my two best parrying weapons.  I
just want to make sure that Quinn and anybody else who's considering more
changes to the combat system remembers that it's not only the players that
will get affected, but also the furry and not-so-furry things that run around
all night when we're asleep.

--------------------------


Message 5797 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 22:00:50 1999 EST
From:     Red_Fang (#5907)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Wow

This guys/gals sound like they know something.. I don't know the math of the
whole deal but things are going good.. But I suspect there are things that
shouldn't be random..  I just thought I'd say thanks for the changes and
thanks to the people who are giving positive feed back..

Red

--------------------------


Message 5798 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 22:17:25 1999 EST
From:     Skywalker (#6644)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  more on stats

Ok, I agree with Myst on the point about having so many skills.  I don't think
we need to split bladed, blunt, and anything else you can think of into
another handful of skills.  It's unnecessary and you could get arguments from
people who want to add dozens of other skills that could fall under the
parentage of bladed.  I don't see why we can't just move trident from its
current position as a child of bladed and make it a sister skill of bladed.
If you wanted, you could add some sort of staves skill as a sister of blunt
to balance things out a bit.  If there was someone who decided they're going
to use a trident or a spear all the time and don't want their bladed, they
can ask a wiz to transfer all of the bladed points to trident (no partial
transfers and you only get to transfer once so no changing your mind).  The
same would go for a staves skill if one gets made.
I don't have much to say about the new trickle_chance simple because I haven't
really seen its effects.
>From what I see with the hard bonus that was reinstated, I can't say I like it
very much (re: my last post).  And that's based on an encounter with a fairly
high level critter.
That's all for now.

--Sky

--------------------------


Message 5799 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Tue Jan 12 23:06:23 1999 EST
From:     Aerie (#24608)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Harder Furry Critters

Well I admit to being totally confused about the proposed stat changes, but re
Skywalkers posts about harder critters:
I was on Jizo boosting my focus a couple of days ago and even with 350 blunt I
had trouble hitting a mini rex. Isn't that kind of ridiculous, considering
that the vast majority of newbies go there to raise their stats to survival
levels? Also, if I understood this right, dividing up blunt/bladed etc would
seriously lower everyone's stats. Now if you also, at the same time, make
everything harder to kill that's a little unfair is it not?

--------------------------


Message 5800 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Jan 13 00:02:02 1999 EST
From:     Janus (#3597)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  playstation emulator for Mac

Connectix released their Vitutual Game Station for the Mac, which is a
Playstation emulator. I just got my hand on a copy. It's really great to play
Final Fantasy VII on my laptop :-) The G3 is fast enough to emulate the PSX
and the graphics are ok.
Definitely worth the $49 (if you don't already have a PSX or if you have a
laptop and want to make it your portable PSX :-)
I look forward FFVIII on my Mac :-)

--------------------------


Message 5801 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Jan 13 00:12:34 1999 EST
From:     Smoke (#12541)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  a quote

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and
making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die,
and a new generation grows up that is familiar with the idea from the
beginning."
-Max Plank

--------------------------


Message 5802 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Jan 13 02:44:08 1999 EST
From:     Mercury (#16576)
To:       *Chat (#5391)

Deep in your arms your heart will thrill me

--------------------------


Message 5803 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Jan 13 11:24:17 1999 EST
From:     Heretic (#6143)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Spy Agency Bans Furbys As Threat


WASHINGTON (AP) - Warning: Furbys could be a threat to national security.

The National Security Agency has banned the popular mechanical pets from its
Fort Meade premises in Maryland. In an
internal message to workers, the NSA issued a warning about the toy, which is
embedded with a computer chip that
allows it to utter 200 words - 100 in English and 100 in ``Furbish.''

``Personally owned photographic, video and audio recording equipment are
prohibited items. This includes toys, such as
'Furbys,' with built-in recorders that repeat the audio with synthesized sound
to mimic the original signal,'' the Furby Alert
read, according to today's editions of The Washington Post.

``We are prohibited from introducing these items into NSA spaces. Those who
have should contact their Staff Security
Office for guidance.''

The Furby resembles an owl, with tufts of hair between its huge pink ears.

Because of its ability to repeat some of what it hears, NSA officials were
worried ``that people would take them home
and they'd start talking classified,'' one Capitol Hill source told the Post.

--------------------------


Message 5804 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Jan 13 11:35:38 1999 EST
From:     Sterno (#21938)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Stats, etc

I have to agree with Dante that not all skills should be subject to the
modifier, such as medic, shock, and focus.

For focus, the way restore works, one minute you might completely heal 350
damage with no side effect, and the next you might get lashback from trying to
heal 60. Also, this seems like it would create problems when Seeker's start
being able to blast Adepts with spells.

--------------------------


Message 5805 from *Chat (#5391):
Date:     Wed Jan 13 22:40:20 1999 EST
From:     Zeccie (#24744)
To:       *Chat (#5391)
Subject:  Writing

I'm seeking a published or want to be published writer. You will not be asked
to submit material, be quoted or even asked to spend more than 5 minutes of
your time answering one question.

Please respond to me with an answer if you have one:

To begin a fictionalized story, list techniques in introducing the book.  I
mean, I need help just starting !
I have the ideas, but no begining.

Zecular

Remember, respond directly to me, thanks.

--------------------------